The incredibly open nature of the Apple II for development, down to the inclusion of schematics in every box, encouraged a generation of users who were also programmers. By contrast, today we have the walled garden of iPhone OS, where Apple judges all. Between these polar positions is the Macintosh. How have Apple - and Apple users - evolved over the years? Has using computers become more or less creative? What tradeoffs have we made between accessibility and empowerment? How do the Apple II and its users measure up in modern times? Panelists: Ivan Drucker (IvanExpert), Martin Haye (California Digital Library), Mike Maginnis (The Computist Project). Moderator: Ken Gagne (Juiced.GS).